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    2020 S-Works Turbo Creo SL

    4.9

    28 レビュー

    世界でもっともパフォーマンスに優れたロードバイクを長年作り続けてきたスペシャライズド。Tarmac、Venge、Roubaix、Allez、Divergeはどれも、業界最高のテクノロジーが注ぎ込まれ、それぞれのカテゴリーですばらしい勝利を収めてきたバイクです。そして今度は、Turbo…

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    世界でもっともパフォーマンスに優れたロードバイクを長年作り続けてきたスペシャライズド。Tarmac、Venge、Roubaix、Allez、Divergeはどれも、業界最高のテクノロジーが注ぎ込まれ、それぞれのカテゴリーですばらしい勝利を収めてきたバイクです。そして今度は、Turbo Creo SLで電動ロードバイクの新たな時代を築いていきます。軽く、スムーズでキビキビと走り、高性能 - これらの特性と、山を平らに感じさせ、向かい風の中を物ともせず突き進み、想像以上にはるか遠くまで走っていけるパワーを兼ね備えたバイクです。あなたはあなたのまま。さらに速くなります。

    他のS-Works バイクと同様、S-Works Turbo Creo SLは最上級グレードのモデルです。FACT 11r フレームに、油圧式ダンパー仕様のFuture Shock 2.0や、Shimano Dura-Ace Di2、XTR リアディレイラー、驚異的なギアレンジを誇る11-42t カセットを搭載します。Roval CLX 50 Disc カーボンホイールセットには、S-Works Turbo 28c タイヤを履かせました。S-Works Carbon Hover バー、S-Works Future ステム、Body Geometry S-Works Power サドルも採用しています。このバイクに乗り出したらきっと止まりたくなくなるため、レンジエクステンダーが付属します。

    ※2020年春の発売を予定しております。

    • The Creo SL is the lightest e-bike in its class—literally kilograms lighter than the competition. Not only does the lightweight and stiff FACT 11r carbon frame inspire dancing on the pedals and diving into corners, but it also reduces overall system weight and increases the range.

    • The lightweight SL 1.1 motor doubles your effort with as much as 240 watts of silent and powerful assistance to amplify your ride. The motor’s responsive torque curve delivers power perfectly in-tune with your normal riding cadence and leaves no resistance when riding unassisted.

    • Battery anxiety? Not on the Creo SL. With up to 80 miles of range from the internal battery, the Creo SL eats up big miles and long days. Our included range extender provides up to 40 additional miles of mountain-flattening power.

    • By connecting with our Mission Control App, you're able to tune the SL 1.1 motor to your riding style, record rides, and monitor the battery. The app can handle battery management automatically too, ensuring the battery will last as long as you need it to. The motor even has a built-in power meter that transmits to any ANT+ head unit. Don’t want to connect? No worries— the Turbo Connect Unit (TCU) on the top tube gives you all the control you need to ride.

    • With the Future Shock 2.0, you'll feel a reduction in fatigue and an increase in speed, no matter the terrain. The 2.0 iteration gives you more control via a knob atop the stem. This knob adjusts compression from fully-open to stiff, while hydraulically-damped internals control rebound. The new Smooth Boot, top cap, and Future Stem also enhance the aesthetic, so you get a clean transition from head tube to stem.

    • We’ve learned there can be more difference between two male cyclists than between a male and female. Gender alone doesn’t provide enough data to specialize. It means that separating bikes as male or female is arbitrary and outdated. With this in mind, we've developed a geometry that's best-fit for all riders—one that's comfortable, snappy, and handles like a dream.

    技術仕様

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    E-Bike

    Motor

    Specialized SL 1.1, custom lightweight motor

    UI/Remote

    Specialized TCU, 10-LED State of charge, 3-LED Ride Mode display, ANT+/Bluetooth®

    Battery

    Specialized SL1-320, fully integrated, 320Wh

    Charger

    Custom charger, 48V System w/ SL system charger plug

    Wiring Harness

    Custom Specialized wiring harness w/ chargeport

    Frameset

    Frame

    FACT 11r carbon, Open Road Geometry, front/rear thru-axles, fully integrated down tube battery, internal cable routing, fender/rack mounts, Boost™ 12x148mm

    Seat Binder

    Specialized Alloy, 30.8mm

    Cockpit

    Tape

    Roubaix S-Wrap

    Stem

    S-Works Future Stem w/ Integrated Computer mount

    Handlebars

    S-Works Carbon Hover Drop 125mm, Reach 75mm, w/Di2 hole

    Saddle

    S-Works Power, carbon rails, carbon base, synthetic leather

    SeatPost

    S-Works FACT carbon 27.2mm, 20mm offset

    Suspension

    Fork

    Future Shock 2.0 w/ Smooth Boot, Boost™ 12x110mm thru-axle, flat-mount disc

    Brakes

    Front Brake

    Shimano Dura-Ace 9170, Hydraulic disc

    Rear Brake

    Shimano Dura-Ace 9170, Hydraulic disc

    Drivetrain

    Chainrings

    40T

    Shift Levers

    Shimano Dura-Ace Di2 Disc R9170

    Rear Derailleur

    Shimano XTR M9050 Di2, Shadow Plus, GS cage, 11-speed

    Cassette

    Shimano XT, 11-speed, 11-42t

    Chain

    Shimano Dura-Ace

    Crankset

    Praxis Carbon/M30 Spindle Interface

    Wheels & Tires

    Front Wheel

    Roval CLX 50 Disc, carbon, tubeless-ready, Win Tunnel Engineered, 50mm depth, CeramicSpeed bearings, 21h

    Rear Wheel

    Roval CLX 50 Disc, carbon, tubeless-ready, Win Tunnel Engineered, 50mm depth, DT Swiss 240 internals, CeramicSpeed bearings, 24h

    Front Tire

    S-Works Turbo, 700x28mm

    Rear Tire

    S-Works Turbo, 700x28mm

    Inner Tubes

    Presta, 60mm valve

    Accessories

    SWAT

    Fender Clamp Adaptor

    * 重量は、写真のように塗装されたフレームの生産に基づいています。実際の重量は、カラーウェイ、フレームサイズ、コンポーネントのバリエーションにより異なります。仕様は予告なしに変更されることがあります。

    ジオメトリー

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    SMLXLXXL
    Crank Length170mm172.5mm172.5mm175mm175mm
    Handlebar Width400mm420mm420mm440mm440mm
    Stem Length80mm90mm100mm110mm110mm
    Saddle Width155mm143mm143mm143mm143mm
    Seatpost Length350mm350mm400mm400mm400mm
    Stack575mm592mm615mm643mm675mm
    Reach373mm379mm384mm391mm399mm
    Head-Tube Length145.5mm163.5mm185.5mm217mm250mm
    Head-Tube Angle72°72.5°73°73°73°
    B-B Height264.5mm267mm267mm269.5mm269.5mm
    B-B Drop80.5mm78mm78mm75.5mm75.5mm
    Trail60mm56mm53mm53mm52mm
    Fork Length (full)390mm390mm390mm390mm390mm
    Fork Rake/Offset50mm50mm50mm50mm50mm
    Front-Center592mm598mm605mm621mm636mm
    Chain-Stay Length426mm426mm427mm427mm428mm
    Wheelbase1005mm1012mm1020mm1036mm1052mm
    Top-Tube Length (horizontal)539mm548mm566mm581mm605mm
    Bike Stand-Over Height731mm759mm782mm810mm840mm
    Seat-Tube Length447.5mm477.5mm502.5mm527.5mm557.5mm
    Seat-Tube Angle74°74°73.5°73.5°73°
    ジオメトリー

    マニュアルのダウンロード

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    Download Icon
    Future Shock Front Suspension (2.0 damper/1.5 undamped) User Manual
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    Trainer Usage Addendum to the Bicycle Owner's Manual
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    Specialized Bicycle Owner's Manual Addendum: Riding With Kids
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    Specialized Bicycle Owner's Manual (All Languages)
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    Dodatek - POUŽITÍ TRENAŽÉRU
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    RIDING_WITH_FRAME_FIXED_CARGO_AND_THE_FUTURE_SHOCK_ADDENDUM.pdf
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    SPECIALIZED STEM ACCESSORY MOUNT
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    Li Ion Battery UN38.3 Test Summary
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    CREO SL - ROAD REMOTE INSTALLATION GUIDE
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    Turbo Creo SL User Manual (EN/FR/DE/CZ/PL/SK)
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    Turbo Creo SL User Manual (EN/IT/SP/PT/KR/CNT/JP)
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    Turbo Creo SL User Manual (JP)
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    Turbo Creo SL User Manual (NL/DK/NO/SE/SL/HR/RU)
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    Future Shock Retrofit Compatibility - English
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    Future Shock Retrofit Compatibility - Chinese Simplified
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    Future Shock Retrofit Compatibility - Croatian
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    Future Shock Retrofit Compatibility - Dutch
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    Future Shock Retrofit Compatibility - French
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    Future Shock Retrofit Compatibility - Japanese
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    Future Shock Retrofit Compatibility - Slovenian
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    Future Shock Retrofit Compatibility - German
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    Future Shock Retrofit Compatibility - Polish
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    Future Shock Retrofit Compatibility - Spanish
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    Future Shock Retrofit Compatibility - Czech
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    Future Shock Retrofit Compatibility - Finnish
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    Future Shock Retrofit Compatibility - Italian
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    Future Shock Retrofit Compatibility - Korean
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    Future Shock Retrofit Compatibility - Slovakian
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    Range Extender (SBC-B16) User Manual
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    Charger User Manual (SBC-C04 / SBC-C05 / SBC-C06 / SBC-C07)
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    EU DECLARATION OF CONFORMITY - TURBO BATTERIES
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    ARTICLE 10 - TECHNICAL INFORMATION ON BATTERY PERFORMANCE & DURABILITY

    ライダーのレビュー

    4.9

    28 レビュー

     

    s-works turbo creo sl

    Das beste Rennrad das ich gefahren habe, ist schon das fünfte in vielen Jahren immer gut beraten.


    お名前:
    Bernd P.

    お役に立ちましたか?

    Great Bike but.......

    Great bike. I still ride my non-e bikes but this one is for when I want to take it easy, ride with my neighbor who can hold 450 Watts, and on my unsupported northern tier ride. But......to be charged for a software update...... Not expected for a ride that costs this much.

    お勧めしますか?
    Yes!

    お名前:
    Frank

    お役に立ちましたか?

    Excelente

    Estou satisfeito com minha bike...


    お名前:
    Maximauro

    お役に立ちましたか?

    Bike Perfeita

    Bike perfeita para quem quer desfrutar de um bom treino sem sofrer !!


    お名前:
    Marcio

    お役に立ちましたか?

    S-Works Turbo Creo SL - 11,000 Mile Update

    Just passed the 11K mark on my Creo and I want to let you know two developments, one good, one bad. I had the software updated to the current versions (Bike, Di2) and I am amazed at the increase in performance of the batteries. I am getting at least 25% more range than previous or put another way a ride where I might use 50% battery avoiding headwinds, now only uses about 25%. Outstanding. Now the bad news, I noticed some twitchy performance out of head unit so took it into the shop. Specialized recommended replacement of the future shock internals which seems early given the bike is 18 months old and it was not cheap ($450) however the change did seem to resolve the issue. With all said I still would highly recommend this bike and I cannot wait for the next iteration.


    お名前:
    Old C.

    お役に立ちましたか?

    저는 계속 업그레이하면서 탈거에요

    잔차를 탈때마다 저절로 넘좋아서 웃음이나요


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    お名前:
    김새벽

    お役に立ちましたか?

    S-Works Turbo Creo SL - 10,000 Mile Review NO REGRETS

    After 10 thousand miles I am still in love with this bike. It has been virtually bullet proof over the long haul, with only wear & tear items (11,12 tooth cogs, tires, chains and break pads) one would expect as normal maintenance. Drivetrain has been flawless as well as the battery life (charge time and distance) unchanged which is amazing. Di2 has also been fantastic with 10's of thousands of shifts without a hiccup. Only recommendations for future design would be OTA / wireless updates for software, need to change gear ratios as it needs at min a 10 tooth rear or larger hub as you can over pedal this machine easily. Will be taking the steed into Naples Cyclery for a top to bottom inspection shortly, just for peace of mind. Now thinking about buying my second Creo to add to the family but with the SRAM setup which if I pull the trigger will allow for side by side comparisons. If you are on the fence on spending this much on a E Road bike don't worry you will not regret it.


    お名前:
    Old C.

    お役に立ちましたか?

    S-Works Turbo Creo SL - 8000 Mile Review

    Just passed the 8000 mile mark on my S-Works Turbo Creo and the bike continues to perform flawlessly. As the miles pile on, I have started normal maintenance such as disc brake pad replacements, new chain and 11T cog (needs a 10T) which are all part of the normal wear and tear. I also have replaced the Specialized All Conditions which went 3300 miles without a single flat. The bike continues to be an absolute dream to ride every day and over the last month I have used the power settings more than usual due to unusually high headwinds here in SW Florida. Rides that would have been a real tough or aborted have been made easy by using the assist. The mission control app allows you to fine tune each power band to your personal ride style. I have one bar of power programed for 20% assist which I have affectionately named the ""headwind abatement mode"". Just having completed the summer in Northern NJ for the I put the Creo to the test on the hills here and I have to say, it was a game changer. Now back in SWFL I am burning up the flat terrain again. I highly recommend this bike as it is a standout in its class and has completely changed my daily rides. Don't hesitate to get the best.


    お名前:
    Old C.

    お役に立ちましたか?

    Driftless Area Dream

    I am almost 70 years old and consider myself an avid bicyclist. I live in northeast Iowa which is part of the driftless ares. It is very hilly here as the driftless area escaped the leveling effects of the glaciers. On a typical outing, I will have anywhere from 60 - 100 ft of elevation gain per mile. The S-Works Turbo Creo SL is awesome when it comes to climbing those hills. It's also awesome when it comes to dealing with strong winds. I love the electronic shifting with the Shimano Di2 components. It does however have a few shortcomings. I have a love hate relationship with the Roval CLX 50 wheels. Their high profile makes speedy descents in a cross wind particularly sketchy as they catch the wind so ""hang on"" while descending. But, I do like that they are light weight and tubeless-ready. I would also like to have higher gearing and I am wondering whether one could change to a larger chainring? I never use the lowest gears, even without assist. I like to toggle between no assist and eco (lowest) assist. I find that hard to do with the TCU being mounted on the top bar. It can be very distracting. In addition to the TCU on the top bar, I would like to see an assist control on the drop bar like I have on the handlebar of my Specialized Turbo Vado or like I have seen on the handlebar of the Specialized Turbo Levo. I am told that one will be available around the end of November and I am told one is already on order for me. I have had my Specialized S-Works Turbo Creo SL for about five weeks now and I have logged 500 hilly, windy miles thus far. The reason I rated it at four stars instead of five is because of the shortcomings I listed above, plus that fact that when I first got the bike, it would only assist to 16.5 mph. In fact, there is a decal on the bike which states ""Max Assistance Speed: 25km/h."" That was corrected with a firmware update but now I have a red flag on my Mission Control that saying I no longer have the current version. Weird!


    お名前:
    Jimmy P.

    お役に立ちましたか?

    Firmware Updates

    I love my S-WORKS Turbo Creo, but there is one big negative. In order to get a firmware update you have to take your bike to a Specialized Dealer and pay them to install it. To pay this much for any big ticket item and a few months later have to pay for a firmware upgrade is grossly unfair. It is a slap in the face from a company otherwise known for good customer service! Specialized should allow its bike owners to install firmware updates, It cannot be that difficult!


    お名前:
    Charles

    お役に立ちましたか?

    A Total Joy! 😎

    Have had the bike for a couple of weeks and have taken several rides. I am a 63 year old male who mostly rides on moderately hilly terrain on weekends in CT. This bike is a lot of fun! Hilly routes I avoided in the past have now been conquered! It has an amazing look and the component selection was superb. A comfortable yet supportive ride. Shifting is smooth. This bike will put a smile on your face 😀. Hook in and have fun. Great job Specialized. Quality craftsmanship.


    お名前:
    Frank

    お役に立ちましたか?

    Excelente custo benefício

    Não trocaria por outra


    Verified Buyer
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    お名前:
    Tiba

    お役に立ちましたか?

    Bike espetcular. Valeu cada centavo.

    Bike excelente. Construção espetacular e corresponde ao projeto anunciado. Cada dia mais feliz e espero os próximos projetos.


    Verified Buyer
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    お名前:
    Rodriguim

    お役に立ちましたか?

    What is the mass of the product

    And don't say it's variable and depends on options... Certainly there is a typical value... 12kg, 30 ?


    お名前:
    Morganism

    お役に立ちましたか?

    This bike has given me back my life's passion!

    I was a 30-year competitive road cyclist (and 25-year Specialized rider), until suffering a life threatening v-fib and cardiac arrest on a ride 3 years ago, caused by a scar on my heart from an old, unknown infection. It was only due to an incredible coincidence that a doctor was walking his dog at the time and place of the incident and saved my life. Needless to say, my racing days are over. Now on meds which severely limit my heart rate, my rides were limited to slow solo spins, struggles up the smallest hills, and the days of riding with my racing buddies were over. I bought a Bianchi Aria e-road bike prior to the Creo coming on the market, and although it was helpful getting me closer to my old level of riding, due to its 20 mph limit, group rides were still out of the question, and since 20 mph is pretty much a normal cruising speed on flat roads, it was very frustrating to constantly hit that speed limit, and have the assist toggle on and off as your speed fluctuated from 19.9 to 20.1 mph. I was thrilled when the Specialized Creo, with its 28 mph limit, came onto the market, and even more thrilled with the S-Works level build out, since I had been racing S-Works Tarmacs for the last 20 years. After putting in about 2,500 miles, I can say that the Creo has been a life changer. It has allowed me to ride like my old self and restored my ability to pursue my life's passion for riding - its often easy to forget about my medical limitations. Two to three hour rides have been typical, and with the Range Extender, there has been no battery anxiety!! Still no group rides yet, due to the Corona virus, but I'm 100% confident that I'll be able to rejoin my old racing buddies soon. Thank you Specialized and W.E. Stedman Bicycle Co. in Rhode Island!!!!


    お名前:
    Gary

    お役に立ちましたか?

    S-Works Turbo Creo SL > 3100 Miles and Still Outstanding

    Just passed the 3100 mile mark on my S-Works and I just love this bike. It continues to amaze me on my daily ride and my only suggestion for improvement would be an option for a larger front chain ring (54T) for those of us in states where it is flat and no hills ( I am in SWFL). There is a tendency to override the gears at top speed. Every single component of this bike has operated flawlessly over the distance. Only part I have changed has been the tires, which I switched to Specialized all conditions, as I was getting a lot of flats in the first 1000 miles, Have not have had one flat in the last 2100 miles with the all conditions installed. I again would highly recommend this bike to anyone looking for top of the line technology. It has changed the way I ride and more importantly it has become an important part of daily exercise regime.


    お名前:
    Old C.

    お役に立ちましたか?

    Well worth it

    Alot of money to invest, yes, but well worth it in my opinion. This bike has allowed me to ride to places I wouldn't have previously gone with a fellow vet who races B grade here in Australia. I personally am a 105 kg rider who really only shone on the track so for my flat rides I find the bikes extra weight to be of little impact but for the hills the assistance is priceless.


    お名前:
    Matt

    お役に立ちましたか?

    Greatest bike ever!

    At 68 years old, and riding with a younger and fast group, this ebike is the perfect fit. I have the Venge, which I love, and now the S-Works Creo SL. Our group does 30-35 miles three-four times a week, at speeds that exceed 30 mph. My recovery time is longer than some of the younger guys, so on days when I need the extra help to stay on the ride, the Creo is perfect. I usually us (in order to maintain my strength,) the lowest power setting, which can also reach speeds of 24-28 mph, but it's nice to know you can get more assist, especially into the wind, if you need it, or if the guys need someone to pull into the wind! Specialized, you have a winner ebike here!!!!! My only suggestion would be to fit a slightly larger chain ring, say a 50 or 52, because I find that when pushing beyond 28 mpd I seem to run out of gears. Please consider this modification, if possible. Thanks PS. Leo, at Bicycle Generation, was fantastic in their service and customer care. They built both my Venge and my Creo. It was Leo who turned me on to the S-Works Creo SL! Thanks guys!


    お名前:
    Steve O.

    お役に立ちましたか?

    TOP OF THE E BIKES FOR SURE

    OMG is all I can say...while I still love my F10 this bike allows me to fly up a hill on a off day when I might have been puffing...I have back isssues and tend to ride in too hard a gear to hammer up the mtn..with my Turbo Creo I don't have that issue...I have never used it too the full extent...3 levels provided but when going up a 18% grade I was glad i had the ability to turn it too the second level...my only complaint is wish you could change the power level from the handlebars...as when climbing a steep grade I do not like to take my hand off the bars...otherwise I LOVE THIS BIKE


    お名前:
    Diane

    お役に立ちましたか?

    BRABA

    MT BOA A BIKE


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    お名前:
    Oi

    お役に立ちましたか?

    This is definitely the best e bike on the market

    I purchased this Creo for my wife so she could keep up with everyone, She is 63 years old, And she's a pretty good rider,But know any variations in terrain doesn't matter, The bike is totally well engineered, And your co.hit a home run on this one .She rides many long rides with no problems Thanks for a great product


    お名前:
    Phillip T.

    お役に立ちましたか?

    Perfect bike for me at this point in my riding life.

    I am a fit 62 year old, 6'6"" 260 lb avid cyclist. For years past, I have ridden my Roubaix bikes for thousands of miles. My wife and I adopted a newborn baby girl, and I was promoted at my work, so my riding has taken a backseat to my life... and I love it! But I still like to ride, and ride hard. With my new Creo, I find I can now stay with my group, especially on long or long steep climbs, where for the past year or two, I was dropping off the back. I still work, as the bike will not pedal for you, but now the work keeps me with the group! Staying fit and not getting dropped is the BOMB! Well done, Specialized! You did it again with the Creo


    お名前:
    Big J.

    お役に立ちましたか?

    S-Works Creo SL - 1000 Mile Review - Still Outstanding!

    Now with over 1000 miles on my Creo SL the bike continues to amaze. Absolutely zero issues to report as it has performed flawlessly and continues to push my limits. The power support is there when you need it but to be honest, given the light weight of this bike, I use it less than 10% of the time normally for the cool down at the end of my ride or when I encounter heavy headwinds, common here in SWFL. You can comfortably ride this bike at 20 to 24 MPH without the assist which is a testament to its best in class weight for an electric bike . Don't hesitate and buy this bike it is worth every penny.


    お名前:
    Old C.

    お役に立ちましたか?

    This bike is AWESOME.

    I have close to 500 miles on my SWORKS Creo. I love it. Excellent build quality and super fun to ride. The ergonomics work well and the motor integration is pretty much seamless. It gives me climbing power when I need it and in Eco mode I still get a great workout. It evens out the hills so I can ride much further than before. It's not as nimble as my SWORKS Roubaix, which is to be expected, but it does have very confident road manners around town and on the fast downhills. The shifting is sharp and quick and the brakes are very linear and easy to modulate. It's a great riding experience.


    お名前:
    St T.

    お役に立ちましたか?

    S-Works Creo SL - Outstanding !

    Upgraded from a Turbo Vado to the new S-works Turbo Creo SL and it is a quantum leap better than an already good package in the Vado. Most notable is how light this bike is in comparison to the Vado, my rides now are mainly without assist, except for climbs and that help at at an end of a long ride. The entire setup is top notch as is to be expected from an S-Works package, but the details show for sure. The new motor and the Mission Control App work well together (still upset the Vado did not have) and the motor it self it much smoother and absolutely no drag when not supplementing power. As for minor improvements to think about there should be a power supply up front to plug in your computer such as the Garmin Edge. Makes no sense to me with all the power on board you have to remove the device to charge it. Also a shout out to the guys at Naples Cyclery who were able to snag me one of the first models and whose attention to detail is first rate.


    お名前:
    Old C.

    お役に立ちましたか?

    Yes, there really is a fountain of youth

    After many months of research reading up on everything I could find on a wide selection of ebikes I settled on the Specialized Turbo Como. It has some very important features (long-range battery w/backup, excellent quality workmanship, strong - yet light - build, etc). The Specialized also is locally sold and serviced by an outstanding dealer (Island Biker). Bob (owner) and his chief assistant (Andrew) have gone the extra mile in making certain that I am satisfied with this bike. I am a fairly fit 83 yr. old cyclist and have averaged about 80-to-100 mi. weekly on my conventional steed. Age has begun to catch up to me - particularly when taking on some of the long and steep climbs found on Maui. The Turbo is allowing me to take on conditions that had begun to limit my range. Interestingly, I am still getting plenty of exercise on the ebike.


    お名前:
    Ray

    お役に立ちましたか?

    Adorei

    É um produto extremamente bom


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    お名前:
    Miguel

    お役に立ちましたか?

    Good Quality

    Good Quality


    お名前:
    Lav

    お役に立ちましたか?